Explore how necromancy is viewed not just in Skyrim but all over Tamriel here https://youtu.be/1plg9kxl1Og

I guess they don’t like necromancy since its forcing a spirit/remains back while the ancestor stuff are willing and free subjects at the end of the day that choose to help their family down the line instead of moving on.

Forceful necromancy is also torture for the soul.
If you kill a reanimated NPC they might say stuff like “Thank you” or “finally free”.

The ancestor work and veneration is necromancy in real practices so makes sense

difference is what they practice is more along the lines of spirit worship and summoning which only brings the soul back from the dead for a short time to assist the summoner whereas necromancy revives the soulless corpse of the person to do the caster’s bidding

Some races deserve to get purged by vengeful lizards…

Fantastic. TES. Lore. Period. Thank you, once again FudgeMuppet, for your unwavering attention to TES lore… no matter how depraved the customs… ❤❤❤

remember kids, necromancy isnt evil so long as the spirit you’re communing with consents.

Sounds like ancestor worship taking to the next logical step with magic.

In many cultures, spending time and communing with the dead is common.

It is just in Skyrim, the dark elves use magic to allow the dead to respond.

I would not be surprised if 90% of such magic being used either fell into categories and either “saying goodbye”, or “where is the money/will/property deeds/combination to safe?”

If one thought about it, such magic could be used to help ghosts pass on and allow people move to land that was otherwise haunted and dangerous due to lingering spirits.

The Dunmer practice a more tasteful form of necromancy integrated with belief and spiritualism, rather than a pursuit of power that sees them fall to depravity.

I love the dark 🕶️ elf’s and the beautiful skin color and the color of the eyes 👀 just look at Janessa in the drunken huntsman I was hooked 🪝🪝🪝🪝🪝🪝🪝🪝🕶️😍🕶️😎🌑🕶️🌑😎

It’s my personal belief that necromancy isn’t evil in and of itself. But you do need to consider the culture of the subject being summoned or the area you are in.

One example I would state as being neutral would be if a culture has a belief like klingons from Star Trek. They believe that the body is a husk after death and will abandon it because it has no value. But an evil instance would be like a Christian being brought to life, which would be highly offensive to them. Just remember your evil might be someone’s LAWFUL GOOD.

I miss being able to summon ancestors ghosts just by being a dark elf

I now read a quote from oblivion, from a member of the great houses of the dark elves.

“Oh, by the way, whats the fine for necrophilia here?…… oh! Thats nothing compared to morrowind!”

They likely view necromancy as the Mannimarco kind. They view what they do as sacred and reverent

Make fallout vid

111th

Typicall N‘wah… ancestral worship is mysticism and not necromancy…

The necromancy most find distasteful force a spirit to serve you or warp flesh in horrible ways for the pleasure of the user. It is simply an abuse of magic and like any other abuse needs to be stomped put. The problem of why it gets more attention is because it touches on some of the most deep rooted fears we all have. So people are less understanding of even benevolent uses of it.

Funny how Morrowind, the land of slavery, is the only place that goes “consent matters” instead of outright banning it lmao

I know most of us are elder scrolls fans before fallout or starfield fans. And it sucks to have waited this long for a legitimate new elder scrolls game. That being said I think we should all be stoked about starfield. The new engine looks beyond amazing and they did starfield first to test all of the new elder scrolls 6 tech. So this game looks as good as it does but Todd said that the elder scrolls 6 will look even better and I believe him. Aside all of that we were just informed that Starfield is getting supported with tons of official dlc for years and years to come until TES6 and then TES6 will get supported for year and years and years until Fallout 5, etc. basically Bethesda has found a way to solve the problem of their long development cycles. We all play their previous games still to this day even when we didn’t have new content. So now TES6 is in full development now while a smaller group works on Starfield content for years to come and vice versa. God that gave me a lot of comfort. And while starfield isn’t my favorite genre I think they had me hooked from the music in the original teaser at E3 2018 alone. The gameplay and what not since then has just gotten me more and more excited. They essentially invented their own sci-fi genre in the whole “nasa punk” feel. Thats a hard thing to pull off and they have me excited so yeah. Thats how I feel currently

the issue is that necromancy is NOT pleasant for the raised one. Their soul know anguish, so does summoned ancestor but they suck it up because it’s for their family and it won’t last long anyway.
Meanwhile random necromancers seems more concerned about the power it grants with complete disregard to their subjects.
The difference is in intent more than the act on its own

I thought the idea of necromancy was with the dead and not the soul/spirit of the dead body. Which seems to be what the dark elves work with
Even summoning for necromancy is different than asking a spirit to come give info is still very different. One is a slave of sorts and the other does so out of obligation and self drive for the community as a whole while still demanding the practice be done with respect and to not waste the souls time in a place they don’t want to be

Out of all that info I’m just wondering why the skulls in the half dig grave are all smashed in

Dunmer despise raising any person from the dead without their consent.
(As as side comment, they don’t consider non-Dunmer as real people)

I don’t really consider necromancy inherently evil. At least no more then setting people on fire, or stabbing them in the chest.

No…its not okay…you said the spirits were willing ..not really…as you said they dont like coming back and to be honest theyre probably not supposed too, id say they feel abliged which is a big difference especially when its family…which does Not make it okay or acceptable…🤷‍♀️

Well technically in D&D speak with dead is Divination not necromancy 👀

So it’s gray magic? Not good, not evil, just unsettling to those who don’t understand it.

I think there is a major distinction here. Necromancy is to Dunmer ancestor worship as kidnapping is to inviting someone to your home. The former is involuntary from the part of the spirit, while the latter is voluntary.

Sheogorath vs TLDB

It’s more akin to a Force Ghost.

if performance of the rituals still forces the compliance/response, it’s a distinction without a difference. if it were a matter of willingness, they wouldn’t need the ritual to make it happen. Sure, they’ll be less annoyed but it should still be considered offensive. Only in dire need should it be done.

It’s more like communing with the spirits. Asking them for help is not like most other necromancers. Necromancy usually doesn’t involve consent or respect, these dunmer spirits tho, help out of consent

So I’m hearing that with powerful enough necromages, the dummer cannot be defeated by an army of nords

Family.

I think *“IT JUST WORKS”*

The ancestors are always up for helping family and yet are always condescending.

When you realise that your ancestor’s a Chimer not a Dunmer, he’s likely disappointed in the newer generations for abandoning the original faith of the 3.

Dark elves use it spirituality as a culture to commune with ancestors. Necromancy is control over the dead. Very disrespectful use of a sacred practice

What mods are you guys using? And on what platform? Because your skyrim looks amazing

I see many commenting here that one of the big differences between Dunmer necromancy and other races is the willingness of the particular soul. Certain individuals such as Mannimarco, however, would sincerely question what “willingness” actually means, depending on the context. Many are “willing,” but many souls have varying degrees of intelligent capacity. There is a strict hierarchy of intelligence, and not all deserve to be treated equally; at least, that is probably what you’d hear from an astute High Elf, necromancy or not.

I think the key differences between necromancy and the type of ancestor-worship practised by the Dunmer are;
1) There is no element of compulsion, the spirits of the ancestors are responding to existing bonds of kinship and veneration.
2) It doesn’t involve the disinterment/defilement of a corpse.
It seems more akin to a religious practise – in the same way that a number of real-world cultures have similar traditions of ancestor veneration/worship.

Maybe this is why I like the Dunmer. They are probably the most open yet mysterious race in Skyrim.

It’s like they embody their belief in Lorkan giving them tests they just adapt to.

The biggest issue with necromancy has always been consent! God I feel like I’m in wizard posting.

It’s not really necromancy though because they don’t summon the dead to do their bidding and serve them.

Necromancy itself isn’t evil. Its just a kind of magic centered around communing with spirits. Its like how Pyromancy isn’t an issue if you use it to light candles but you can burn peoples flesh off too.

I say that if you’re trying to kill the Dragonborn for no reason whatsoever . You deserve to spend all eternity in a black soul gem . Not once in any gameplay of any game that I’ve ever played , have I killed an NPC who wasn’t very much asking for it . Even when I play as a vampire , I make most of my food rogue mages and bandits .

Yeah, consent is the big difference. They aren’t just raising random people to do their bidding.

Still waiting for a Starfield commentary

Necromancy as a categorization is really just death magic in general. So reanimation fits, but spirit manipulation, undead command, any form of decay magic, soul magic in most cases, and arguably blood magic and anything reliant on sacrificing a life in order to do it. Obviously, lichdom counts according to everyone, but becoming a lich is basically self reanimation through unusual methods.
So summoning the ghosts of dead Dunmer definitely qualifies as necromancy by my standards, but the way the Dunmer do it is not really an immoral or bad form of necromancy in most cases since the ghosts are usually willing to help their descendants. Life drain spells could easily be considered necromancy too, but there’s a serious error in categorization for that one. It tends to be put in destruction, which is defined most often as elemental and focused on simply destroying a target, making it a fitting name. Restoration is where I think life drain spells belong, because it’s defined as being magic focused on life forces. If the ability to transfer life energy from the target to the caster doesn’t fit that definition, then I’m a flying, purple giraffe.

Big difference between summoning a spirit for aid vs trapping a spirit in a decomposing corpse and forcing assistance

If I could come back to help my family fight after my passing I’d do it in a heartbeat lol that’s badass.

off topic: wood orc build?

Contextually speaking, communing with ancestor spirits has a distinctly shamanistic lean to it, but it’s not like Bethesda is going to add a school of magic just for one DLC.

It’s all about consent as in whether it’s given or not.

It probably depends on diction. Even in IRL speech, we have different personal meanings, or regional means, for the same words. Dunmer may see Necromancy as raising the dead in a corrupted or cruel way. There’s a line between spirit magics and necromancy, and I think that they lean further into necromancy.

The other possibility is if they allow necromancy, with extreme restrictions. I think they have specific rules on entering cript, and insulting one’s ancesters

Yeah it’s a funny situation when it is voluntary and not against a dead person’s will haha

there’s a huge difference

My fav race to play as

True fact when the Ebony Warrior claps a Dummers cheeks all of there ancestors feel it. That’s why the are mad all the time.

Their version of ancestor worship seems more like an invitation rather than a summoning. If their ancestor can choose whether or not to materialize, then it’s not even really necromancy, rather just a means by which to provide the dead with enough power to materialize and do what they will. The only thing really binding the spirit to help is honor

The Witch King would approve

The taboo about necromancy is firstly the desecration of the mortal remains into a marionette- facsimile of whose remains those are. Secondly and perhaps more horrid is the robbing of a person’s soul and entrapping them in a soul gem, stealing away from them their rest and splendor in the afterlife. It’s the same reason why I don’t even count enchanting as it’s own school of magic.

But since the dunmer do none of this (at least by and large) and the return of their ancestors’ souls to the mortal coil of mundus is consensual where they can and will return to their afterlife, I say it’s pretty tame, and in fact not necromancy. Is it the animative manipulation of remains? No. Is it the entrapment of a soul? No. The spirit is a living thing, so I would even go so far to say that it’s not even manipulation of the dead.

I think its more “Dont summon a zombie”

I just want my own undead army

MANNIMARCOOOO!

It’s just a different type of family reunion.

No moral problems with ancestors protecting their people. Why wouldn’t you want your ancestors to help if they could???

Dunmer: Massive hypocrites.

The Dunmer are not ok if Necromancy is performed on a dead mer, but are perfectly fine if it is performed on other races they deem “inferior”. Hell, House Telvanni encourages to practice Necromancy on “inferior” races, but forbids performing it on fellow Dunmer.

i’d love for my children to be necromancers:
helping my descendants, my lineage, maybe hundreds of years after my mortal body has perished would fill me with pride

Dunmer tradition be like:
Press F to pay respects.

What would a Dunmer who follows Arkay look like? Interesting? Socially outcast? Devout? It’s one of my favorite concepts and I wanted to share it with you!

Keep it up buddy

Personally loved the hypocrisy of it, kind of helped in adding another level of depth to such a deep culture. Man I loved Morrowind so much 🤩

Man i would love to have this kind of connection to our lost familymembers. 😢

I didn’t know this, this is really cool

These videos are crispy

Dude that’s badass, worshipping those before you and having contact with them.

If you tell them about it, necromancy isn’t as vile as asking a High Elf wizard to reverse enchanting Azura Star to store mer and men souls into it.

“Willing” and “Family”are where the difference lies.

It’s still necromancy, but a specialized form of necromancy. One that is appropriate, ritualistic, spiritualistic.

The difference between necromancy and Dunmer ancestor worship is the context. The Dunmer petition their ancestors for aid and give the dead the respect they deserve. Meanwhile, necromancy usurps their will for use as fodder or servants, and the spirit has no say in the matter.

“Necromancy” literally means “divination by the dead” or calling up spirits for advice. They are the ONLY true Necromancers in Tamriel!

The difference is consent.

Yes, magically meddling with life/death is usually necromantic, but it is not inherently evil.

I think the difference is in willingness of the subject. Most necromancers that we would be fighting against in game are often the type to just set up in a random tomb and start working. There’s no question of consent or even the barest respect for the dead they’re using.

In the case of the Dunmer ancestor worship, there is a legitimate bond there, one of family and a deep respect for the spirits being communed with.

Consent is important kiddos, whether in love or raising the dead!

It’s not evil necromancy if a spirit consents to their summoning.
EDIT: Changed word to ‘evil’, after I realized my writing mistake, sorry

It’s called Mysticism. It’s not Necromancy.

Well thats not really necromancy is it then

I’d have to agree!

I feel like it’s a grey area the “necromancy” Dunmer do are them asking their ancestors for advice and protection, and the spirits like you said come by choice. True necromancy forces life into a body usually not even the oringal soul. It’s all about consent, which is why Dunmer depise other forms of necromancy